Mike Cosper Interviews JD Greear

Transcript:

Speaker 1: And we've been really blessed. I have, my wife and I we've experienced probably something similar to what most of you all have experienced when you began pasturing, that's excitement and then heartache and then disappointment and then depression and then all that comes after that.

We had, we came up to New York, we didn't plan a church. We came and replaced a pastor who had stepped down. It was a struggling church. They had experienced a lot of loss. I had a lot of dreams, a lot of passions for church planting and changing the world. And everyone else was just tired of all that. They just needed to be pastored and shepherded. I just turned 30 and I didn't know how to do any of that. I knew how to talk a big game but I didn't know how to shepherd and care and be present and so I had to learn how to do that.

Going through that, experiencing encouragement, Sojourn came alongside us from the very beginning and it was an encouragement to us, was present with us. Daniel [Montgomery 00:01:11] at the very beginning was very encouraging. Mike [Cosper 00:01:13] has been with us Jenna and I, my wife, and his wife Sarah have been encouragement for a long time.

When Dave Harvey came on, he was an immediate encouragement to us, he's been presence, he's been praying, text messages, emails. And so just experiencing friendships along the way. When many of you probably have experienced this, when you begin pastoring. I never experienced depression and it hit me pretty hard, for about 18 months, I was in a pretty dark cycle of depression.

So just having good friendships to listen, [Jim and Rich 00:01:49] if you guys have been around for a while, Jim and Rich, click and clack. They were a good presence, I feel like all the '80s kids really know what that is. So thanks for laughing, those of you who know that reference. They were a good presence in our life. Came up to New York and we experienced conflict on staff, there was prayer and presence and love for us. 

So we've been ... We've experienced love from Sojourn along the way. They've been a good care network for us. We got a worship leader through the whole thing. We got Nick Nye to come up to new York so we've experienced a lot of gifts just being a part of friendships here and in network.

So I'm thankful. If you are considering is this a network for us to plan in or to partner in, it's friendships, it's care? Dave Harvey is a wise counselor, he knows how to be present and to listen and to think with you and to strategize. The strategists are a good presence, they're good friends, we've had several of them come and spend time with our staff or check in on us to see how we are doing. So it's a good place to be as a young pastor.

It's a good place to be in frankly for wives. So if you have a wife who's lonely this is a good place to be in for wives. So I encourage you there as well. But I'm the least interesting thing part of this morning. So I'm gonna invite up Mike and JD and we pray for you guys as you begin.

Father, I pray for this next time. JD and Mike follows. We wanna care for churches, to plant churches and send missionaries and send church planters, Father. Would this be a strategic time, would this be an engine towards renewal, would this be an engine towards ideas and strategies and imagination, not only for the growth of our own churches but the growth of your Kingdom through our cities and through the nation. So Father we ask for help, and in the name of Christ we pray. Amen.

Mike: I'm excited for this opportunity to sit down with JD and talk a bit and to draw some things both from what he had to share with us this morning, and then more broadly from your experience as our leader of church planting network. A leader of a multi-site church that comes with all kinds of challenges in terms of-

JD: Baggage.

Mike: Leadership development, baggage, video screens. Not that we're getting into that.

But also your role in the [SBC 00:04:33], your participation in that denomination I think that's interesting place of collaboration and complexity.

JD: Thank you for using the word interesting.

Mike: Yes.

JD: There's a lot of words you could have chosen there. That was a good one.

Mike: Well, we'll get to those. We will get to those. And I say that as a Southern Baptist so I can say whatever I want about them.

You've been real strategic with your church planning strategy. You talked this morning about what you've done with college students and kind of pressing in on calling as a burden, as an obligation for everyone.

You've also talked a lot about the role of the spirit and the work of the spirit. So I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about sort of the tension between ... It's often pitted as a tension between the work of the spirit and inspiring and all of that versus the necessary sort of strategic work that has to get done.

Is there a conflict between developing a strategy and as a leader placing the burden on the people to go? Versus allowing the spirit to do its work in calling and doing internal calling in the lives [crosstalk 00:05:44].

JD: Yeah, I think, now I just wanna acknowledge upfront that this is an area that I think I'll continue to grow in for the next 30 years 'cause I come out of a very traditional, more Baptist and reformed world. So it is something that ...

I think what you find in the book of Acts is that you start these questions with very practical considerations, very biblical considerations that the majority of what the spirit of God does, he just does everything through the word.

When it comes to discovering calling, you know one of the little things that we use, this not original with me because nothing that I say that is interesting is original with me, but it is, you know the three ... The [VENN 00:06:22] diagram of affinity, ability and affirmation. Affinity is what you care about. Ability is what you're good at. Affirmation is what other people tell you God uses you for in your life.

I found almost an identical one in Jim [Collins 00:06:35], who's not a Christian. His leadership book was talking about how you find a business, it's a very practical consideration and when you found where those three needs that's probably a place of a spiritual gift. So that's what we put out to people when we give them that. Whatever you're good at you're able to go with God, do somewhere strategic for the mission of God.

So in fact there's a lot of wisdom and practical thinking that goes into that the spirit of God uses and can move on top of, move around. Even when you get into the book of Acts you find that Paul is not just sitting around waiting on the spirit to do something in his heart or spell something in his Cheerios. He's going to where he thinks the most strategic places are but then he's open of the spirit of God at 16:8 forbidding him from going in a different direction.

I would tell this and I say this with all due respect, but I would say if you're gonna start the question, start it with Kevin [DeYoung's 00:07:24] book Just Do Something. Now Kevin has almost zero place in that book for any kind of dynamic spirit leadership. I say that with respect, he's one my favorite people, favorite theologians. But start with that and then grown in your sensitivity to the other ways that God is doing that.

Somebody asked me during the break, what are some good resources for that? Ironically enough, you go back to a Wayne [Grudem 00:07:48], his Systematic Theology's got a great section in it. I wrote a book, and again I'm not trying to push that, it's probably not the best book out there on it but it's called Jesus, Continued, and the whole middle section is about the five ways that we see the spirit of God speaking in the Book of Acts and how this dynamic relationship really occurs and how you're really supposed to sort of weight them out between what do you do when they're in conflict and circumstances. I think those things will help. 

One of the guys brought up, and I hope the audience will hear me very charitably on this. I remember having my ministry paradigm rocked two decades ago with Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby. I think there are some things in that study that could be critiqued but there was a sense of "Hey, I'm walking with God. And not just out doing something for God." You kind of start with the reformed Baptist base and then learn from these other sources, if that makes sense?

Mike: It does and I think from a leadership perspective, I think what I see in your approach is there's a burden on us as pastors and leaders to make sure people know "You are called, you are sent." And then a confidence like a faith in that the Holy Spirit is going to affirm that in various ways. And draw out the specifics of that future there, individual lives.

JD: Right, it's God steers moving ships. And so the more you, the way you discover a spiritual gift is that affinity and ability. And then people start saying "Now when you teach, God uses that. When you minister mercy God ..." It's like he's doing that with me.

Mike: Yeah, I heard [Keller 00:09:25] one time say "If you want to know what God's will is, make a decision and you'll find out if it was a good decision or a bad decision and God's will will be with the other one."

JD: Right, or I just read, that's a great statement. It reminded me of [Metaxas 00:09:39] has a new [inaudible 00:09:39] Luther, and he brought clarity to a statement I've always heard referenced to Luther but never known exactly what it meant. But that statement to send boldly was actually to [Melanchthon 00:09:48] who was real timid about knowing God's will. And Luther wasn't saying go about and just look at pornography brazenly, he was saying "If you make a mistake, make it boldly." Because the only way God leads is when you're kinda out there just doing something.

Mike: That' great. Well, practically what are some of the things you've done in your church to kind of help your congregation learn how to listen to the spirit of God and pay attention in their own lives?

JD: I wrote a book on it. [crosstalk 00:10:17] I preached it to them. And gave it to them basically for free.

Definitely teaching on it. I'll be totally transparent with you, I still feel like we're not a great model as a church on this. I feel like I've understood it, we've introduced the language but I feel like it's so unfortunately counter cultural to us that it's like I gotta keep revisiting it. And even this morning I was thinking how much is this happening on the small ground level, which is where it needs to happen. 

We're not a church that really has the freedom to just have this open holy spirit moments where who wants to take the mic. We think that a lot of that happens on the small group level, and I think it is happening but I think it requires a lot of constant sort of stimulation. And of course the questions of calling when you're putting those things out there for people and just spiritual gift awareness that really helps galvanize their thinking on it.

Mike: Are there any specific examples of ways this has worked itself out, that you can look at and go "Man, here's a church we planted and here's people that went and here's what the Lord did." Anything specific that comes to mind?

JD: Yeah, well not so much a specific one as much as more of a process. So we'll meet with, we have four, average of four church planting residents on staff a year. And we definitely have priorities where we wanna seed lead for us college town is a big one, different parts of the country that we're trying to really focus on. So we're putting those out there but we're really sensitive to a guy whose developing a passion or a relational network and just say "Hey, we can see the spirit of God moving on that."

We'll meet with like all of these college graduates and our college pastor will sit down with them and he'll just ask them "Are you willing for us to speak very strongly into where you should pursuit your career? Are you willing to help us get matched up?" And it's amazing how many respond "Yes." 

The little phrase we use is "You put your yes on the table and let God put it on the map." So now that you're pursuing your career, put it say wherever and we'll do that. We'll try to get them to figure out their calling. A lot of them will go as career, pursuit their careers, some of them will go and raise money and it's just some interesting dynamic how it all works out.

Mike: Yeah, that's fantastic.

Let's transition a little bit and talk about partnerships, talk about some of your work, specifically I'm gonna start with the SBC because to me this is such a big network that we can look at it and see probably all of the advantages and all of the disadvantages of churches trying to work together.

Let's start with the advantages. What are some of the things that wow you there?

JD: Why am I with them?

Mike: Why are you in the SBC?

JD: So I'm able to say that we all probably know and agree on, networks denominations, which are really just glorified networks, are tools for the kingdom, they're not eternal realities. The church is eternal, not that. And so, a tool if it's dull you sharpen it. And if you get to the point that if no longer helps you to sharpen it, you throw it away, you get a new tool.

But throwing away a tool and getting a new tool can be really, really expensive. Keller says in Center church, he says "There are movements and there are institutions." He said they both need each other. He said now we're used to thinking especially a younger generation of how institutions need movements because institutions without movements are dead.

They're this big colossal things, a lot of money, a lot of buildings and just no life in them. He said "But what we don't talk about as much is how movements without institutions lack staying power." And he says "A lot of times it's deceptive because the national conversation is being dominated by a movement leader who when you actually get down to unpacking what they have, what their yearly output is, it's actually ..."

Even Acts 29 was in every way a movement, I think it's becoming in some good ways even more of an institution now. But it was a movement. Mark Driscoll was just ... Everybody knew him, a bazillion Twitter followers and everything he said people you know ...

But when you actually get to the number of church planters they were turning out and doing, compare that to the SBC, which the institutions. SBC seminary graduates, I don't know the exact number but it's probably 3,000 students a year. 3,000 let's just say men a year. And if you write off half of them as like not really talented, even if you did that, and then took that 1,500 and cut it in half, that's still 750 people a year that are coming out of the staying power of an institution.

So I've been very attracted to remain within the SBC because in large part the staying power of the institution when it comes to international ministries, their theological training, I'm pretty excited about the leadership of most of them right now. Kevin Ezell of North American Mission Board is fantastic. He's very humble and approachable. Of course David Platt at the IMB. Russell Moore, a great representative with the ERLC. Our seminaries, several of them are led by people that are just willing to do things differently in how they do it. And we just felt that it's worth being a part of the conversation with them to keep it going in the right direction.

I added up, I don't have a statistic relevant today but last year, added up the amount of money that the IMB pays for our people, just some of the people on the mission field. And that number was like $4.6 million. That's a lot bigger than our mission budget. And so that's the power of an institution. For some, the guys out here and the men and women there, it's gonna be a natural partnership. And we're gonna have to get your hands dirty a little bit but either there's more good that'll come out of it and for some it's not gonna make sense as the right network.

Mike: The disadvantages now. The difficulty of being associated with a Baptist when something comes out in the news or some Baptist pastor says something crazy on CNN or Fox News.

JD: Right, or has one of Fox News things in his pulpit on Sunday.

Mike: On Sunday morning. A Roman Catholic in his pulpit on a Sunday morning on the same week that he called them in Catholicism a pagan blood cult.

JD: Yeah, that's right. No irony there.

Mike: No irony there.

What is that draw out in you? And what do you do about it?

JD: Yeah. Part of it is just the dilemma of being in any large group of people. I think very quickly after I've grown a little disillusioned with the SBC, I found that every other network I was starting to get in, it was like "Well, they got crazy uncles too in here." And I think I'm the crazy uncle to some of these people.

The nature of it that it's that, and God has always worked in these imperfect things. And there comes a point at which hypocrisy is so bad that you can't go on. But at some point you gotta make a decision that you're gonna be with falling people and falling people will bring these issues and you gotta get in there and fight. [Dietrich Bonhoeffer 00:17:41] I think it was called The Cost of Discipleship or Life Together. 

He said, there's a transition that happens. "When you first getting awoken to the things of God, you always come to pharisee. And you look throughout the church and say, "How can I live with all these hypocrites?" He said that's the first sign of immaturity. He said for a first level maturity and first sign of immaturity, because the next level of maturity is where you say "I'm kind of as messed up as a lot of these people are." And so then you rejoin it as follower of Christ and not a pharisee. And a follower of Christ is looking for redemption not a perfect group.

The Summit Network, even as small as that is, we got issues in there. Right now, I feel like it is something that is, at least God is calling me to continue to engage in for the purpose of network and collaboration. 

Mike: That's great.

Something that is kind of a related topic, certainly related to the reference we made at the beginning is that this is where evangelicals in the age of Trump. And one of the things that seems to be happening inside of evangelicalism is a real divide over what's happening with our politics.

One of the things as a network that we are trying to pay a lot of attention to and care a lot about is developing as a multi-ethnic network, multi-ethnic church planting network. Racial justice seems to be one of the dividing lines for the church, one of the really significant dividing lines for the church right now, where people are being sort of drawn apart, I wonder, and again, back to the SBC this is a really significant issue for the SBC. Someone like Russ Moore almost lost his job for speaking out against Trump. 

I just wonder with yourself as an institutional leader looking at this, how do churches that are divided politically, what are the possibilities for coming together? What has to happen to bring us together?

JD: Yeah, that's a great way to ask that question 'cause we know that that's what God wants. And we know that those of us who've been more privileged in the majority culture have to ask some questions that are not going to be instinctive to us. And I think these are really good conversations. 

I'm dealing with it more probably on a local church level even than I am on the national stage level because I feel like in our own churches we are growing in ... And by God's grace is giving us a lot of ... Success is the wrong word ... He's giving us a lot of progress in this, that this is a very pressing question for me.

The first thing I usually start with is again to go back to something Keller Yoda said, is he said ... He points out the, you got two Jesus' disciples that are about as opposite of the political spectrum, with questions that are no longer that pressing to us but in those days, anything about Jewish history were big questions. What do you do with the Romans. What attitude to do have to the Romans. One thought the other was a betrayer, this thought you were insubordinate. 

And here you got Matthew, tax collector, and you got Simon the Zealot and I'm sure they had some spicy conversations around the campfire. But Jesus managed to bring them together in a larger Kingdom issue. There's a passage that I use with our church, and you gotta use it carefully, but hear me charitably if you will. 

A man comes to Jesus in Luke chapter 12, and he says "My brother won't divide the inheritance with me." Now, in those days your older brother had a lot of say in there and it really was an area where they could abuse their power position, the position of privilege, and really do wrong to the younger brother. So we're talking about a legitimate social justice issue.

They come to Jesus and Jesus' statement is so brazen it catches you off guard, it's like what's that got to do with me. And then he preaches a sermon on greed, Luke 12, the story of the man who went to hell, that would've applied to both of them. Now is Jesus thereby saying he didn't care about justice and we shouldn't be involved in justice? No. He was not saying that because that would against a lot of other parts of his ministry.

But he was saying there was a certain amount of involvement there that becomes cumbersome and it becomes diverting from the mission that God has given to us. And so, I often in telling our congregation like if you're in the majority culture we have to bear each other's burdens, we need to listen to this and be aware of areas of blindness, and structural racism and inherent racism and our brothers and sisters of color can really help us with that.

There's also a sense in which I know if Jesus would have gotten it and adjudicated that particular one, there would have been an endless stream of cases for him to settle and it would have taken him away from the one that he was called to do, which is preach the gospel and make disciples. And I want to make sure that in all we do, that that focus is, we don't lose that focus there.

I think that I'm enough of a Kuyperian, Abraham Kuyper to think that Christianity touches every sphere, which means that Christians ought to think Christianly about tax policy and healthcare and racial issues. But that doesn't mean necessarily that the institution of the church ought to take all those burdens. The church's organism ought to empower people to get in them but the church as institution, not necessarily because it would encumber our mission.

I tell our church, "I might be wrong on my position of whether or not nationalized healthcare is a good idea." They don't even know my position in the church, but I might be wrong on that but I'm not wrong about the gospel. And I won't let my positions on the former keep people from hearing me in the latter, so I'm deliberately restrained in doing this and just trying to inspire people to think this way but without encumbering the institutional church.

One last thing I'll say, when we were talking about racial issues or everything, policy seems so doggone clear in the moment. And just a few years later you look back and say "There was a lot of things ... A lot more dynamics on that." One example for me is I was on the Southern Baptist Resolutions committee in 2005, which is resolutions committee is a group of people that make statements on behalf of the SBC. In 2005 they wanted to put an endorsement of the Iraq war. Well, maybe it was four, but at the time, everybody was for the Iraq war. Hillary Clinton, everybody, we were all gung-ho for it and everything. And we need to make a statement about just war.

And I raised the question, I'm not sure the SBC should get involved in endorsing wars except in extreme circumstances. I mean maybe there's a realm there for holocaust kind of situation. I just don't know if that's our role. I was just like, personally I'm in support of it but well, I may have blasted. "If we don't connect this stuff to actual stuff we're like the Christians in the 1960s who preached against racism but went on with segregation. We gotta connect it, we gotta say this is a just war."

So I lost. The thing passed with nine and one abstention, I was the one abstention, I was too much of a coward to vote against it. And so it went forward. Looking back now, and you're like "Yeah, we probably shouldn't have been that sure." Well, I know now, we're all kind of nodding our heads but they're also things today that we were just really, really sure about on both sides. You can be sure like that but don't tie the churches name to it. 

Mike: Well, especially when it comes to policy, when it comes to these political things where it seems like it's crystal clear is human beings made in the image of God, human dignity. And that seems to be the primary burden that still in some circles of evangelicalism and white evangelicalism people don't seem to necessarily see where they find an issue were beyond this.

How have you approached those issues on your own church?

JD: Mainly listening. If there ever a place that the phrase be slow to speak and quick to listen would apply, I think it would be in this one.

I think I as a majority culture representative is even more I'm behoven I need to actually do a lot of listening. I think there's certainly on the minority side, that is something also to them that we get in there.

I don't know if we've always been this great but we've tried things like when there was one of the police shootings that was particularly contentious, one of African American pastors ... I wrote it like a plea as if I was writing from the black side. I said this is me but I said let me you what our African Americans are thinking this and made the case in a way that African Americans in our church would have nodded their heads and said that's what we feel in this.

And then one of our African American pastors wrote it from the perspective of a policeman. So let me tell you what the questions they have in this. And it was an attempt to say let's listen and seek to understand more than we seek to be understood.

Mike: That's good.

JD: Leading up to the election, we did a forum and I tried to lay out without revealing my own cards on it, because I knew that would be a disaster, but I tried to say there are evangelicals who just cannot vote for Trump for these reasons, especially a lot of brothers and sisters of color, let me lay out for you kind of what they're thinking, character issues, white nationalism issues, let me tell you what they're thinking.

And then I stopped and then I said, let me go over here and said there are others of you, there are other evangelicals who feel like even with all those previous things being true that what's best long-term for the country is ... I heard one guy says "When you elect the president, elect a thousand people and I like them 999 that I think would come with Trump more than the those that I'm sure will come with Hillary. He says, "I'm gonna hold my nose and vote for Trump."

You don't have to agree with him on that, you can make it to bad decision but at least let there be some understanding 'cause we can agree to disagree on this and still go forward in unity.

One of the things that I-

Mike: And you're pressing into it as well, the church. Like that's the pastoral role is we as body need to hear one another. 

JD: Right. One of the things I'm, it was when I was at the church a couple of weeks ago, is Paul, First Corinthians 9, says "To the Jew I became a Jew." Now a Jewish person their racial ethnicity is really precious to them because they were very prosecuted people. But he wore it so lightly that he could take it on and off like the garment, to the point he even said to the Jew "I re-became a Jew than I'm naturally Jew."

And I had to say for a white nationalist, for brothers and sisters of color, yes, we need to have these discussions. We need to have uncomfortable discussions, we need to do it with the door locked, which says if we don't agree I'm not leaving. I'm here to stick this out. But we also need to do it with a certain lightness because we understand that we are citizens of heaven and ultimately if we disagree on this particular policy, we can do it as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Mike: Well the gospel confronts identity politics and says no, your primary identity isn't these things. It's you're a child of God.

So, last couple of things here before we wrap up. I'd love to hear you talk about perhaps the role, what does a small church have to offer a network? 'Cause I think a lot of times when we are small as churches we feel like we're taking a lot, what can we bring to the table when we're small?

And then the flip side of that question, for larger, more established churches, they may feel like I don't really have anything to get out of collaboration and partnerships, we can kind of do it on our own.

What would be the urgencies for larger churches to take part?

JD: On the smaller churches thing, I felt like some of the best ideas that have come into our church have come from our smaller church planters. I just spent this weekend with one, an evangelism strategy that they are pursuing that I thought, man, that would really ...

Another one has developed an assimilation process, we're connected to Brandon here. Brandon Shields and there's a lot of things that they developed Soma and Indy that have just been really helpful for our church because as Keller often says, these new churches are places for innovation. And they can stimulate that. That's what they can bring to the table because they get to really start with a blank slate and even with the Summit Church is kind of a newer, kind of younger church, it's amazing how quickly these things turn into concrete. And you're just like, we do it this way. There's no other way to do it.

Mike: You're innovative for one Sunday and then the second Sunday you're a traditionalist. [inaudible 00:30:05] did last week?

JD: I get a real amount of pleasure out of the phrase and I say it all the time now, I'm a traditional seeker server. I just kind of giggle and I'm like, that's so fantastic.

There's also just what I said today that the majority of people in our country every weekend sit in churches that are 200 people or less. Which means that if the revitalization and stimulation ain't happening there, it's not gonna happen. So they're really the front lines, the mega churches are more of the exception. The percentage wise there's just not in with that many people even, and again obviously respect to Keller, even when you have this huge focus on the cities, like you just gotta go the cities, one of the things you realize you look throughout history, God has done most of his stuff starting in places like [Whittenburg 00:30:55], or [Wittenberg 00:30:56]. And it's usually not been from the center, even the people that are even Keller will say this, even the people that are in New York City, most of them grew up somewhere else. And so just because you are not in the cultural center, and we do a lot of city stuff, so I'm not hitting on that, but just because you're not there doesn't mean that you're not ...

There's a real chance that if you were to pick the 15 greater ... If can look forward in history 40 years, and see the 15 greatest Christian leaders. I would bet 14 out of 15 of them are right now in small churches. Maybe one of them is out there in one of these cities strategic churches. That's what they can bring.

The other thing, a large church, I feel like for large church there's two reasons. One is get the benefit the innovation, you're having a much greater [inaudible 00:31:46] impact. And the other is just it's what we're called to do, first [inaudible 00:31:49] 2:2. What you learn, commit to others.

I feel like we gain a lot through these relationships, they keep us fresh, they keeps us very connected, there's questions they're encountering that I just, when your institution, when your church gets bigger, most of the conversations you need to have you stop having. Because an institution gathers people who like to affirm. And I thought the majority of things that I need to hear I don't hear anymore, I have to seek them out. And a lot of that is through yes, people in the church but also through these churches that we work with. And then it's a part of sharing what God's done in us as a way of giving into the Kingdom.

Mike: That's fantastic. Well, we wanted to bring some of our leaders up here on the platform to pray for you. We're thankful for what Summit is doing, what you're doing, your advocacy for the gospel, your love for the church. Your love of missions.

I know that you guys are one of the largest sending churches for the IMB in the whole country. And that's amazing to hear and to know that missionaries are coming off from your church and going all over the world.

So we just wanna pray for you, pray for your ministry. And show our appreciation and our confidence that God's gonna continue his work in you [crosstalk 00:33:00]

JD: Can I have our church plan director, Mike [inaudible 00:33:04] over there.

Mike: Come on up.

JD: Matt Love, who also works for him. I'd love to have these guys join if that's alright.

Mike: For sure. [crosstalk 00:33:12]

Speaker 4: You've guys been blessed by JD this morning? 

I'm thankful for your passion and your clarity, even though you don't use periods. That's amazing.

Let's pray.